Last night I made yet another comment on someone else’s Stack about things not making sense, and it occurred to me just now to toss out a discussion thread on this topic.
It is a general question, but the specific context is that of our globalist leaders forging ahead with their plans for global fake pandemics, travel restrictions local and global, social credit systems, theft of all personal property, and so on and so forth, in spite of the obvious and increasingly well understood lies behind it all.
This doesn’t make sense? OK, but if not, what good does it do to keep saying it? I can think of a a few possible responses to that right away, not mutually exclusive by any means:
There are things we don’t know that we need to investigate and discover (how obvious can it get?)
We rigidly hold false assumptions that blind us to the truth, possibly leading to #1.
We can see how it could make sense, but in some ways the implications are too awful to contemplate, so we say it doesn’t make sense. Over and over, wishing it would go away.
There are more possibilities, but I need to go somewhere shortly, and anyway Substack suggests that I should keep these thread topics short. Below is a sampling of what I think. What do you think?
We are living in a ghastly, diseased and dying world, powered by scientific and technological “progress”, which we nevertheless continue to trust and worship, as long as we are suitably convenienced and entertained.
When an organism is this sick, rot sets in. We are seeing the effects of the rot without acknowledging that we are part of it — “No! It’s somebody else’s fault!“. That is the awful truth that we avoid by saying that things “don’t make sense”.
I expect to have more to say about this in an upcoming, planned post.
The rot set in long ago, but kept itself under wraps. Only now the rot is letting it all hang out. Our best course of action is to withdraw Our consent from the psychopathic legal/governmental system and stand sovereign aggregately on Ethical ground (under the three Laws of Ethics ONLY). And co-create something vastly better.
Our sermon this week hit hard on some of the larger problems within "the church" in general, and ours in particular. I've been waiting three years to hear things like this said.
This is what happens when they let loose the youngest teaching pastor, the high school pastor who is also going through Revelation with his students because he thinks it's important for understanding Jesus and the differences between his first coming and his second (with not a hint of Darby or Scofield that I'm aware of), to present a sermon on faith in _action_.
I've drafted an outline, but need to proof it before publishing.
We lost our other cat this week. They were beasts of the field, I know, and rescue cats. Their field for most of their lives was the back of our lot, which is one big garden (including vegetables and fruit for us), more than enough to keep two cats occupied for a decade and a half. We are glad they won't be facing what is coming. It wouldn't have been to their benefit, I don't think.
We are like the Roman empire in it's dying days. No one wants to believe that our country and world is in a downward spiral of sin and decay. But we are watching this very thing happen everywhere and sinfulness is nonsense that leads to the destruction of family, countries and the earth.
I am truly looking forward to your upcoming post. IMO - It always makes sense. We just don't want to make sense of it for reasons each of us harbor as if those reasons are precious cargo when they are rotten to the core. Like Miss Havisham's wedding cake (Great Expectations).
I'm OK with repeating that things don't make sense or, more accurately, don't appear to make sense, if it somehow leads in the direction of understanding, although even understanding is not enough. Oddly enough, my local church was just treated to a sermon related to this, which I posted here in my "small group" section last night, "Faith Working". I was quite surprised to hear matters being brought out that I had not heard addressed previously in three years of attending and being a member there. Things are not going smoothly for them, and it seems to be helping.
But let me try to understand what you are saying. There certainly can be value in the repetition of "it doesn't make sense", and especially if it is accompanied by soul searching. What I am seeing for the most part, however, is finger pointing at the "authorities" or "powers that (shouldn't) be" or whatever, without consideration for the possibility that false assumptions are standing in the way of understanding, or that those seeing the problem (whatever it is) might actually also be part of the problem.
A fuller statement of what is repeated might be "what THOSE PEOPLE are doing doesn't make sense". This same pastor who gave the "Faith Working" sermon this week, back in February gave a sermon titled "God Loves 'Those People'", although not referring to quite the same ones! The underlying principle, however, remains the same. We tend to deny our connection to certain segments of the population.
Much more can come to light when we include ourselves fully in the corporate search for meaning. There is a need to put trust in others, allowing for human weaknesses, and there is a need to trust in something greater that is not weak like we are. The "something greater" is absolutely essential, because we don't ourselves possess what we are lacking. That's pretty much a tautology, but a useful one I think.
Imagine a group of children, lacking knowledge and experience, getting together and trying to "improve". While they might combine forces and learn from experience, if knowledge is required that can't be learned simply from experience then how would they find it without outside help? But we think we can improve without outside help. How are we doing so far?
That question brings up another concern. World events suggest that we are on the brink of an unfathomable global disaster. The powers that (shouldn't) be appear to want it to occur. Time is running out to assemble and try to figure things out. Outside help is needed, very soon.
Is it possible that one reason so many aren't even reaching "that doesn't make sense" is that so few are speaking real truth -- gained with outside help -- into the crowd, and demonstrating the kind of life that would lead to a different outcome?
There is a "simple gospel", but the Gospel is not simple. A couple of passages hint at this.
1Cor. 3:2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, since you were not yet ready for it. In fact, you are still not ready…
Heb. 5:12-13 Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the basic principles of God’s revelation again. You need milk, not solid food. Now everyone who lives on milk is inexperienced with the message about righteousness, because he is an infant.
So there is an introductory way to understand the gospel, and there is a mature way. My Gardner commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:18, here touches upon the complexity:
"The word of the cross is a synecdoche* for the proclamation of the gospel of salvation to be found in Christ crucified. This proclamation, as we see elsewhere in Paul and in the New Testament, would have included the announcement of God’s judgment upon sin, the need for repentance if forgiveness is to be received, and the way in which the salvation is achieved as Christ died on the cross “for you” (1:13; cf. 15:1–7). The death, resurrection, and exaltation to glorious lordship would all have been part of this full message."
A little later he goes into even more detail, but does not elaborate further about "this full message". We have, then, included in the gospel:
1. The announcement of God's judgement upon sin
2. The need for repentance if forgiveness is to be received
3. The way in which salvation is achieved as Christ died on the cross "for you"
4. His death, resurrection, and exaltation to glorious lordship
All of these things can be found in Paul's writings. Following any version of the "Romans Road" we can find them, more or less, all in just a few verses, although cherry-picking verses doesn't make these matters particularly clear. Many people have nevertheless been moved by them. The words of scripture have power.
Paul is the most voluminous author of the New Testament, and his writings abound with the gospel, but you can't find a simple "how-to" within them, not in one place. Perhaps 1 Cor. 15:1- 5 ff. comes the closest. People were meant to gather together and learn together. People new to the teachings learn from those demonstrating those teachings through their changed lives. If the people of your gathering are demonstrating something else, that is a problem, one in which the book of 1 Corinthians is a deep study.
A deep dive into 1 Corinthians "happens" to be part of my present study pattern, and I've noticed a number of things going on in my own local church that make it seem like Paul was writing there about us. But then the leadership, of which I am no part, has noticed these goings-on too, and they are taking steps to address them, while we still have a church. They noticed this without any help from me. We seem to be taking our cues from the same source.
The current sermon series, of which I am posting a portion, appears to be part of their response. It points beyond the gospel itself to what it is that we ought to be doing, and how when we do that unity results. This is also the kind of thing Paul's writings did.
The gathering, then, is important, but it can be far from perfect. But in the absence of Paul, there may be ways to help fill in what's missing or incorrect, such as small or large groups, or even attending other gatherings in parallel. There are other possible "substitutes" that are so far out that I'm not going to mention them here, but God can still use them, if he put you there to begin with. I'm saying this from experience.
There is also the possibility of going elsewhere, if there are strong signs that God is directing you to do so. My last four departures were signaled this way, and I reluctantly left. (OK, the most recent one, three years ago, was not quite as reluctant, but another person's needs for a discipling church, as opposed to one lacking that feature but having a substantial presence of young, vaccine-worshiping medical workers, took precedence.)
There is also help online, although I say that having recently had to mute or altogether toss out all of the other formal church ministries I was following. The muted ones were traditional ministries operating in a traditional one-way fashion, and I didn't have time for them. They were largely redundant in my life and not connecting with the work I do online. The tossed-out ones, while they proclaimed the gospel, were behaving badly in other ways that I had to learn about and eventually reject. At that point, they were gone in a flash.
I have another sermon for which to post an outline, possibly later today if I can just finish this comment, cook some lunch, and determine if a reply to a comment in yet another Stack needs to come first. This sermon might contain something that would help. It contains a lot.
* A figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole (Merriam-Webster)
The rot set in long ago, but kept itself under wraps. Only now the rot is letting it all hang out. Our best course of action is to withdraw Our consent from the psychopathic legal/governmental system and stand sovereign aggregately on Ethical ground (under the three Laws of Ethics ONLY). And co-create something vastly better.
Just Stop Consenting! (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/just-stop-consenting
Blueprint for a Society of Ethical Sovereigns (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/blueprint-for-a-society-of-ethical
Our sermon this week hit hard on some of the larger problems within "the church" in general, and ours in particular. I've been waiting three years to hear things like this said.
This is what happens when they let loose the youngest teaching pastor, the high school pastor who is also going through Revelation with his students because he thinks it's important for understanding Jesus and the differences between his first coming and his second (with not a hint of Darby or Scofield that I'm aware of), to present a sermon on faith in _action_.
I've drafted an outline, but need to proof it before publishing.
We lost our other cat this week. They were beasts of the field, I know, and rescue cats. Their field for most of their lives was the back of our lot, which is one big garden (including vegetables and fruit for us), more than enough to keep two cats occupied for a decade and a half. We are glad they won't be facing what is coming. It wouldn't have been to their benefit, I don't think.
🙏🏻💜🙏🏻
We are like the Roman empire in it's dying days. No one wants to believe that our country and world is in a downward spiral of sin and decay. But we are watching this very thing happen everywhere and sinfulness is nonsense that leads to the destruction of family, countries and the earth.
I am truly looking forward to your upcoming post. IMO - It always makes sense. We just don't want to make sense of it for reasons each of us harbor as if those reasons are precious cargo when they are rotten to the core. Like Miss Havisham's wedding cake (Great Expectations).
I'm OK with repeating that things don't make sense or, more accurately, don't appear to make sense, if it somehow leads in the direction of understanding, although even understanding is not enough. Oddly enough, my local church was just treated to a sermon related to this, which I posted here in my "small group" section last night, "Faith Working". I was quite surprised to hear matters being brought out that I had not heard addressed previously in three years of attending and being a member there. Things are not going smoothly for them, and it seems to be helping.
But let me try to understand what you are saying. There certainly can be value in the repetition of "it doesn't make sense", and especially if it is accompanied by soul searching. What I am seeing for the most part, however, is finger pointing at the "authorities" or "powers that (shouldn't) be" or whatever, without consideration for the possibility that false assumptions are standing in the way of understanding, or that those seeing the problem (whatever it is) might actually also be part of the problem.
A fuller statement of what is repeated might be "what THOSE PEOPLE are doing doesn't make sense". This same pastor who gave the "Faith Working" sermon this week, back in February gave a sermon titled "God Loves 'Those People'", although not referring to quite the same ones! The underlying principle, however, remains the same. We tend to deny our connection to certain segments of the population.
Much more can come to light when we include ourselves fully in the corporate search for meaning. There is a need to put trust in others, allowing for human weaknesses, and there is a need to trust in something greater that is not weak like we are. The "something greater" is absolutely essential, because we don't ourselves possess what we are lacking. That's pretty much a tautology, but a useful one I think.
Imagine a group of children, lacking knowledge and experience, getting together and trying to "improve". While they might combine forces and learn from experience, if knowledge is required that can't be learned simply from experience then how would they find it without outside help? But we think we can improve without outside help. How are we doing so far?
That question brings up another concern. World events suggest that we are on the brink of an unfathomable global disaster. The powers that (shouldn't) be appear to want it to occur. Time is running out to assemble and try to figure things out. Outside help is needed, very soon.
Is it possible that one reason so many aren't even reaching "that doesn't make sense" is that so few are speaking real truth -- gained with outside help -- into the crowd, and demonstrating the kind of life that would lead to a different outcome?
I can't add anything to that!
There is a "simple gospel", but the Gospel is not simple. A couple of passages hint at this.
1Cor. 3:2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, since you were not yet ready for it. In fact, you are still not ready…
Heb. 5:12-13 Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the basic principles of God’s revelation again. You need milk, not solid food. Now everyone who lives on milk is inexperienced with the message about righteousness, because he is an infant.
So there is an introductory way to understand the gospel, and there is a mature way. My Gardner commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:18, here touches upon the complexity:
"The word of the cross is a synecdoche* for the proclamation of the gospel of salvation to be found in Christ crucified. This proclamation, as we see elsewhere in Paul and in the New Testament, would have included the announcement of God’s judgment upon sin, the need for repentance if forgiveness is to be received, and the way in which the salvation is achieved as Christ died on the cross “for you” (1:13; cf. 15:1–7). The death, resurrection, and exaltation to glorious lordship would all have been part of this full message."
A little later he goes into even more detail, but does not elaborate further about "this full message". We have, then, included in the gospel:
1. The announcement of God's judgement upon sin
2. The need for repentance if forgiveness is to be received
3. The way in which salvation is achieved as Christ died on the cross "for you"
4. His death, resurrection, and exaltation to glorious lordship
All of these things can be found in Paul's writings. Following any version of the "Romans Road" we can find them, more or less, all in just a few verses, although cherry-picking verses doesn't make these matters particularly clear. Many people have nevertheless been moved by them. The words of scripture have power.
Paul is the most voluminous author of the New Testament, and his writings abound with the gospel, but you can't find a simple "how-to" within them, not in one place. Perhaps 1 Cor. 15:1- 5 ff. comes the closest. People were meant to gather together and learn together. People new to the teachings learn from those demonstrating those teachings through their changed lives. If the people of your gathering are demonstrating something else, that is a problem, one in which the book of 1 Corinthians is a deep study.
A deep dive into 1 Corinthians "happens" to be part of my present study pattern, and I've noticed a number of things going on in my own local church that make it seem like Paul was writing there about us. But then the leadership, of which I am no part, has noticed these goings-on too, and they are taking steps to address them, while we still have a church. They noticed this without any help from me. We seem to be taking our cues from the same source.
The current sermon series, of which I am posting a portion, appears to be part of their response. It points beyond the gospel itself to what it is that we ought to be doing, and how when we do that unity results. This is also the kind of thing Paul's writings did.
The gathering, then, is important, but it can be far from perfect. But in the absence of Paul, there may be ways to help fill in what's missing or incorrect, such as small or large groups, or even attending other gatherings in parallel. There are other possible "substitutes" that are so far out that I'm not going to mention them here, but God can still use them, if he put you there to begin with. I'm saying this from experience.
There is also the possibility of going elsewhere, if there are strong signs that God is directing you to do so. My last four departures were signaled this way, and I reluctantly left. (OK, the most recent one, three years ago, was not quite as reluctant, but another person's needs for a discipling church, as opposed to one lacking that feature but having a substantial presence of young, vaccine-worshiping medical workers, took precedence.)
There is also help online, although I say that having recently had to mute or altogether toss out all of the other formal church ministries I was following. The muted ones were traditional ministries operating in a traditional one-way fashion, and I didn't have time for them. They were largely redundant in my life and not connecting with the work I do online. The tossed-out ones, while they proclaimed the gospel, were behaving badly in other ways that I had to learn about and eventually reject. At that point, they were gone in a flash.
I have another sermon for which to post an outline, possibly later today if I can just finish this comment, cook some lunch, and determine if a reply to a comment in yet another Stack needs to come first. This sermon might contain something that would help. It contains a lot.
* A figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole (Merriam-Webster)